iPhone vs. TyTN II Kaiser, which came out on top?
Roughly 20 days ago, I took delivery of a shiny new HTC TyTN II Kaiser (recently re-badged and offered stateside as the at&t Tilt). Similar to the feature packed Nokia N95, HTC’s TyTN II Kaiser pulled out all the stops offering everything you could possibly want in a mobile handset that still managed to fit in your pant pocket(s).
Although the Kaiser leant more towards the side of big and bulky, the added weight and footprint housed the conveniences of dual cameras, HSDPA, GPS, and a slide-out QWERTY + tilting screen. An admitted skeptic turned believer regarding the Apple iPhone, the recent firmware update (1.1.1) which made loading 3rd party applications a little more cumbersome persuaded me to consider my options. Return to the Symbian powered Nokia N95, or experiment with something completely new [for myself] - a Windows Mobile device? Because I had already experienced the feature-packed Nokia N95, the TyTN II Kaiser seemed like the natural answer.
So with open mind and arms, I cheerfully welcomed the Windows Mobile 6 powered HTC TyTN II Kaiser. The iPhone was powered down, SIM card removed, and placed within the drawer of "archived" goods.
HTC ups the ante for full feature loaded Smartphones
At some point in all of our lives, the desktop version of Windows has or will cause(d) either a) frustration, b) anger, c) irritation, or d) any combination thereof. Having grown up using Windows ME, Windows 2000, and Windows XP I have felt the pain. BSOD anyone? I convinced myself that Windows Mobile would be different. Despite the negative experiences of co-workers, friends, and family, I had to believe Microsoft had managed to optimize its popular Windows operating system in such a way suitable for use on an everyday device like HTC TyTN II Kaiser.
- The HTC TyTN II Kaiser is a solid piece of hardware - movable pieces or joints reinforced with metal or thick plastic.
- Tilting screen turns the device into a mini computer sitting beside you atop a table.
- Full QWERTY sliding keyboard - keys are firm with adequate space between for larger hands.
- Front-facing VGA camera suitable for 3G video calls on supporting networks, rear-facing 3MP camera + auto-focus for still shots or video recording.
- Touch-screen "TouchFLO" interface - use your fingertip (not fingernail) to select items, scroll through emails / contacts / web pages, or dial numbers.
- Stylus for more intricate control of touch screen functions.
- Integrated GPS which includes TomTom 6 + one free map of your choosing (additional maps available for download). Also compatible with Google Maps GPS. GPS satellite lock within 10 seconds.
- SDHC compatible - provide our own high capactiy microSD card for external storage of applications, photos, files, videos, or maps.
- HSDPA, UMTS (850/1900/2100 MHz), GSM/GPRS/EDGE (850/900/1800/1900), WiFi b/g, and Bluetooth.
- Jog-dial similar to those found on BlackBerry devices - activates Start menu, scroll through programs, your email inbox, or down long web pages.
- Decently sized 320 x 240 QVGA screen with portrait or landscape mode for viewing wide images or video files.
After roughly one month of use, I was reminded that despite all of the bells and whistles, even the most feature laden devices are made or broken by the operating system in which they are powered by. A well designed operating system will embrace and enhance hardware features, while the opposite muddles the user experience negating all of the bells and whistles that sold the device in the first place.
You know you are dealing with Windows when…
You know you are dealing with a Windows device when the manual / documentation is as thick as the device itself. The thickness hints at just how exhaustive the feature set is for the HTC TyTN II Kaiser. At the same time, you can only imagine how much more time consuming it would be to familiarize yourself with every facet of the handset compared to the Apple iPhone.
From a new users perspective, a manual that requires 5+ pages for the table of contents and even more for the index is daunting. From the Start menu to Program Files, File Explorer to Pocket Internet Explorer. Every basic detail of the handset features integration with Windows Mobile is documented. Don’t get me wrong, the information presented in the manual is all very useful for the first time Windows Mobile user, but like all things Windows, most of the useful tips can only be found online through Windows Mobile power users.
I couldn’t help but reminisce back to the day I picked up my Apple iPhone. After spending 5-10 minutes admiring the svelte packaging style that is Apple, I immediately plugged the phone into my computer via USB and was up and running. I didn’t even know there was documentation to walk you through the setup.
The initial setup for the Kaiser was a little more involved. Power on, wait for the 30 second boot-up time (this is Windows), initial screen alignment with the stylus (thinking back to my Treo 700p days), basics of stylus actions, setting up handset security, and adding any email account. All of this was immediately followed by a network detection wizard [which worked like a champ] automatically configuring the device for use with Cingular / at&t - MMS, SMS, voicemail, HSDPA connectivity, etc. Once the configuration wizard was complete, the handset required a mandatory ‘Restart’ in order for the settings to save. Gah! This is Windows.
A pocketable Windows XP complete with the pain & frustration?
* As precursor, my main operating system is Mac OS. Due to the fact that Windows nor HTC offer Mac OS compatible software required to sync the handset with desktop applications. I relied on The Missing Sync by Mark/Space or virtualization tools for my syncing and application installation needs. In order to use the HTC TyTN II Kaiser to its fullest potential, access to Windows XP / Vista is required.
It has been a considerable amount of time since I have had to use any variant of Windows on a regular day-to-day basis. Prior to the Kaiser, it had been nearly 3 years [not including time spent debugging with Internet Explorer using Parallels or VMware]. With an open mind, I ignored any previous negative feeling regarding Windows and focused on investigating the possibilities and options offered by a Windows Mobile powered Smartphone.
Towards the end of the two week mark, the magic of the slide out QWERTY keyboard, tilting screen, high speed HSDPA network, and integrated GPS began to wear thin. The downsides of the Windows Mobile platform began to show.
- What good is a 320 x 240 QVGA screen if you can’t read it whilst outside on an overcast or sunny day unless the brightness is turned all the way up?
- What good is a 320 x 240 screen that can change from portrait to landscape when most of the OS window chrome eats up a noticeable chunk of the viewport?
- So what if I can run Skype mobile on my device for VoIP phonecalls? The audio can only be outputted through the rear speakerphone [unless you install BTaudio and redirect sound to a Bluetooth headset].
- So much for clean multi-tasking. Those same taskbar notification popups most people hate seeing in Windows on their desktop notify you of incoming SMSs, MMSs, and emails stealing your cursor focus unless you disable them completely [muddling with the Windows Registry].
- Recently sent a text message have you? Well Windows will go ahead and interupt whatever you’re doing to let you know it was successfully sent [unless you tweak the Windows Registry].
- Incoming phone call while you’re out on a busy street? No worries, go ahead and select ‘Answer’, it will take nearly a second for the call to actually initiate on your end giving you a head start to move towards a quieter area.
- Installing, testing, and uninstalling applications? Remember, this is Windows. Simply electing to ‘Remove’ the application using the Add / Remove utility isn’t guaranteed to remove everything. You might find some remnants left on your memory card, in a subdirectory of Program Files, even a subdirectory of My Documents or Windows.
- The slide-out keyboard is fantastic, but the resounding click heard by your co-workers sitting next to you will make you think twice about messaging someone discreetly during a meeting.
It’s not Windows Mobile without a stylus, even with TouchFLO
Touch screen devices will become more and more the norm, especially for smaller devices like cellphones, Smartphones, and personal audio / video players. The HTC TyTN II Kaiser includes a stripped down version of HTC’s TouchFLO interface which allows users to control certain aspects of the interface with their fingertips.
TouchFLO provides users with very basic functions like scrolling through an address book, emails, call logs, and web pages. Additionally, users can dial directly from the call screen or make use of 3rd party developer software like PocketCM’s Keyboard. Unfortunately, the usefulness of TouchFLO on the Kaiser is hampered greatly by the quality and sensitivity of the screen. Despite increasing TouchFLO’s sensitivity further with additional registry editing, selecting buttons, dialing numbers, or closing programs without using the d-pad keys was cumbersome - requiring a fingernail or stylus.
The root of the cumbersome touch phone experience on the HTC TyTN II Kaiser is the operating system itself - Windows Mobile 6. HTC made every effort to create a positive touch screen experience with their own custom dial pad and Today plugin, but beyond those two facets of the device, everything else is inherited from Windows Mobile. For example, many of the functional elements that you would want to control with your fingertip are 16 x 16 pixels. A comfortable footprint for the included stylus, but hardly enough room even the smallest fingers.
HTC’s TouchFLO is a great supplemental feature for Windows Mobile handsets, just don’t start thinking that you can toss that tiny stylus away just yet.
Is it even fair to compare the iPhone & Kaiser? Not really
Others have pointed out that neither phones can be compared in a head-to-head battle due to the fact that one is geared towards and offered at a considerable discount for business users, while the other is not. Can you take a guess which handset fits the business profile? Hint: one device offers support for Push, Exchange, BlackBerry Connect, and multiple VPN networks; the other, "push" email thanks to Yahoo, two-way iChat like text messaging, and heavy focus on mobile music.
Rumor has it that at&t offers the re-branded Tilt aka TyTN II Kaiser for under $200 (even free for some) for at&t Premier accounts (reg. non-Premier price $299 with new activation). Check out Amazon for even more savings on the at&t Tilt
In all fairness, the HTC TyTN II Kaiser would win hands down in any power business user setting thanks to an array of connectivity options, integration with Outlook, and Mobile Office (Word, Excel, and PowerPoint). Additionally, being a Windows Mobile device, users have access to thousands of useful productivity applications to enhance their experience further.
In contrast, iPhone users are limited to the handset applications designated by Apple or rich web applications. However, Apple has announced the availability of a SDK in February 2008 which may turn the tables in favor of the iPhone with 3rd party developers creating applications for business users. Both device address the needs of different types of users.
The option of applications is great, but usability is far more valuable
Over the course of 20 days of use, I collected a few thoughts concerning my experiences with the HTC TyTN II Kaiser.
- Startup is slow. Painful almost - especially for a mobile device. I almost half expected to see the BIOS screen display with the option to boot into ‘Safe Mode’. Windows *shudder*. Hopefully your phone won’t lock up too many times requiring a full reboot.
- Ooh how sweet it is to have ‘Reply to all’ or ‘Send to all’ options for SMS Text Messaging.
- Just setup a new POP account on your iPhone? Yeah, have fun marking each message as read individually. At least Mobile Outlook can be enhanced with feature like ‘Mark all as read’ or ‘Delete all’.
- The familiar concept of the Recycle Bin is missing from Windows Mobile. When a file is deleted from the handset, it is gone for good with no option to recover.
- I wish HTC had skinned / themed the entire Windows Mobile interface to make the device truly touch friendly.
- The TyTN II Kaiser really is business / phone first with entertainments options added on.
- Battery life is so-so. Removed from charge at 9AM, nearly completely depleted by 11PM. You can’t expect much from a device that keeps a data connection live whenever possible. I’m not complaining.
- Without any 3rd party applications running, Windows Mobile eats up roughly 35% of the onboard memory.
- Did I mention that I wished HTC had skinned the entire Windows Mobile interface. The non-irritating way to manipulate anything behind the HTC Today plugin is with a fingernail, stylus, or the d-pad.
- Appreciate the option of upgrading external memory with SDHC compatible cards. Capacity will only continue to go up (hopefully the prices will continue to fall).
- Auto-focus on the rear facing camera is great, it would be a little more convenient if it was a little quicker so as not to miss the intended shot. Where’s the flash?
- Mobile Safari on Windows Mobile. I routinely found myself missing Mobile Safari even after installing Opera.
- Get nice and cozy with a registry editor. You’ll need to know the basics if you want to tweak Windows Mobile to make it more useable.
- When I press ‘Answer’ for an incoming call, I expect the phone to answer right now! Isn’t that what a basic phone is supposed to do?! There should be no "thinking" involved, no delays, nothing! Yes Tres, I was wrong, Windows Mobile even managed to crash when I tried to receive a call.
- Appreciated the option of creating multiple network configuration profiles. I set one up to use at& / Cingular’s special port which both optimized images before loading and offered streaming videos, and a second for straight HSDPA browsing with image compression and optimization.
- I actually worried about the idea of a Windows Mobile Virus.
Windows Mobile applications / utilities that helped
The number of applications available for use on Windows Mobile is incredible. I only hope that once the iPhone SDK is released will Apple’s mobile platform explode in a similar manner. Here are a few of my favorites for use with Windows Mobile:
- The Missing Sync ($40) by Mark/Space - I don’t use Windows and wanted my Address Book contacts, iCal events, select audio / video files, and folders synced back and forth. The Missing Sync took care of all of that and more including local call log and SMS log archiving for backup and searching. In addition, The Missing Sync provided a drag ‘n drop interface for installing CAB files on the device.
- Skype Mobile (free) - VoIP calls over HSDPA. Great quality. I only wish that audio could be outputted through the device headset speaker rather than the rear-facing speaker.
- Fring (free) - Also offered VoIP calls but used mainly for instant messaging. Chat with MSN, ICQ, Google Talk, Skype, or update Twitter.
- Resco Explorer ($30) - Replaced the default Windows File Explorer with a far more powerful alternative which included a real Recycle Bin, FTP, Registry Editor, and a slew of other features.
- Google Maps GPS (free) - Although the HTC TyTN II Kaiser included TomTom + one free map download, Google Maps proved to be far more accurate. I loved TomTom’s adaptive routing but misguiding me and putting me 7 blocks away from my intended destination was unacceptable.
- Opera Browser ($24) - Not free but very much an required upgrade over Pocket Internet Explorer also known as PIE. Tabbed browsing. Mmm.
In closing… Yes, I admit it. I went from iPhone to HTC TyTN II Kaiser to iPhone. A complete circle. I assumed that being able to install whatever applications I wanted on my mobile device was the flexibility I wanted. I was wrong. I could have loaded the TyTN II Kaiser with every imaginable Windows Mobile application I could find on Handango, but there would still be something missing. Simplicity. Real iPhone applications are just around the corner, 4 months to be exact. Whether or not the SDK will open the iPhone up as a true competitor against existing Smartphones is uncertain. However, I am 99% certain that the HTC TyTN II Kaiser (at&t Tilt) is my first and last Windows Mobile device. Not because of HTC, but because Window Mobile [in general] is too clunky and bloated.
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Eli
elihorne.com
Derek. Honestly, how many high end “smartphones” do you own at this point? I feel like you’ve owned and reviewed every >$500 phone since I can remember.
Oct 22nd, 2007 Quote
dap1
People that buy HTC products probably know what they’re doing and don’t have to read an in-depth manual to operate their phones. Most of the downfalls for the TyTN II can be customized and ‘fixed’ with quick registry edits.
See http://www.xda-developers.com/ .
Oct 22nd, 2007 Quote
Derek
5thirtyone.com
When at&t is pitching the Tilt to Premier members, saying that people who buy HTC know what they’re doing and would not need to read the manual is an arrogant assumption. I can count more people than I have fingers and toes as a simple example who are offered the device through work as the standard employee handset. HTC itself is not the hurdle, it’s Windows Mobile. The average user does not want to download a registry editing application to fix something that should be offered through System Settings.
I do agree that XDA is a great resource. I included the link above referencing ‘power users’. I spent a great deal of time browsing the forums weeks before the the Kaiser arrived.
Oct 22nd, 2007 Quote
Kory Twaites
twaites.com
Hey Derek, great article. I recently switched to the HTC Mogul from Sprint, this was my first smartphone, and I kinda feel like windows mobile is bloated. I’ve used a friend’s iphone and the experience is so smooth. I think if windows mobile had that same experience it would be a good phone OS. But I agree that most of the time the OS holds the phone back.
Oct 22nd, 2007 Quote
Derek Reiff
derekreiff.com
Great review! (/comparison)
You put up some pretty good info and insight.. I’m in the iphone/looking for something else boat right now, and had looked at HTC’s line…
Now I’m back to leaning toward Nokia again..
_Derek
Oct 22nd, 2007 Quote
Derek
5thirtyone.com
Derek R., Nokia’s recently announced / released N81 is looking pretty good. Then there is the 8GB version of the Nokia N95 which I think is a pretty good option. Nokia has improved the battery life on the 8GB (black) version considerably over the original release.
Oct 22nd, 2007 Quote
Edwin
Great review Derek! My brother in law actually purchased the ATT version about a week ago. I’ll have to ask him how his experience with the Tilt is so far.
As for me, I’m currently an iPhone user but am looking at other phones as well. I have the N95 as a backup but I shelved it because of the lack of a keyboard. If they ever find a way to put a full qwerty keyboard on it with the same specs, that will be the PERFECT phone.
I’m thinking of getting my first BlackBerry. Do you have any thoughts on the Blackberry Curve? I saw that you own that phone as well. I’m thinking of getting an unlocked Tmobile version since it has WiFi.
Oct 22nd, 2007 Quote
Derek
5thirtyone.com
The Curve is a great BlackBerry. For some reason the phone didn’t feel right when held with two hands. For anyone who loved the Pearl yet wished for a full keyboard, the Curve is a fantastic alternative.
Oct 22nd, 2007 Quote
Marty
It sure is odd how people with a negative attitude towards Windows have so many problems. I was looking forward to using the Tilt and after 20 days of use I haven’t seen any of the problems you mentioned, strange. I played around with a friend’s iPhone and within 5 miunutes found things I didn’t like at all and gave it back to him. I do agree with you that it’s not really fair comparing these two devices, it’s kind of like comapring a Ford F350 SuperDuty with a VW Jetta. Both are great at what they were designed to do.
Oct 23rd, 2007 Quote
Derek
5thirtyone.com
I did not have a negative attitude towards Windows Mobile before the device arrived. I made every effort during research to prepare - investigating 3rd party applications, collecting a massive list of tweaks and registry edits, etc. The simple fact is that Windows Mobile just does not feel as integrated as a cellphone as it is a personal organizer. It’s a fantastic platform for multi-tasking, it simply falls short of expectations as a mobile phone. It felt as though there was always an extra step or two required to get something to work.
Oct 23rd, 2007 Quote
Arnold
threetwelve.com
Marty, you used the iPhone for five minutes and didn’t like it? What was wrong with it? I think it’s the best phone I’ve ever had. Prior to using the iPhone, I had a Samsung t809 and before that, I strictly used Nokia phones.
As Steve Jobs said, if you want internet, a phone, and mp3/video player, the iPhone is the phone to use. Now if you want to VPN tunnel to work so you can reboot a server, the iPhone may not be the phone for you, but I think the iPhone will eventually get there.
It’s like comparing Windows versus UNIX. Windows, to me, is not as robust as the UNIX platform. So take that robustness, add Apple’s interface and you have the mobile device that all other devices are measured by.
Oct 23rd, 2007 Quote
Paul
Hi. Just a few comments.
First off, I’ve been using a TyTN II for a couple months now, and have none of the problems you mentioned, without ever having to make a registry edit. Before the TyTN II, I had a TyTN, HC Wizard, Dell Axim, and a Toshiba e750. I had no problems with any of those (other than a screen hardware issue on the Wizard).
Regarding your comments of the unuseable interface… I’ve used Palm PDAs, Blackberries and Symbian phones and found their interfaces to be primitive, archaic and downright unuseable, bordering on useless. Symbian UIQ is about the closest I’ve found to the ease of use of WM, and even it kind of pales. If you can use a Windows desktop machine (or any modern GUI OS), you can use a WM PDA with no problems.
Your comment that this device is targetted at “professional” users is nonsense. I use mine as my personal phone, and find the PDA features and internet connectivity to be very useful. I use the built in office apps for all kinds of things. The multimedia capabilities are great, especially after you add TCPMP and use it instead of media player. I’ve got about 15 hours of music, some videos and several maps for GPS navigation on it, making it a very useful device to have on the road.
The iPhone is good as far as it goes, but Apple really missed the ball with it. You can’t do half the things that are possible with windows mobile (and even Symbian) on an iPhone.
Oct 29th, 2007 Quote
Derek
5thirtyone.com
Unless I’m mistaken - and I may be - but how do you disable the sent message confirmation without a registry tweak? Camera save location, moving My Documents to an external card, adjusting the backlight once a call is placed, Cleartype in landscape mode, relocating PIE downloads to external card, or any other registry only changes to improve handset performance?
I understand that most people will not need to make these changes, but for a mobile OS that eats up ~37% of the built in RAM not including 3rd party applications, it’s touch not to make the performance changes.
The post was a personal comparison between the iPhone and TyTN II. Not at all a fair comparison [mind you]. The comment that the TyTN II being geared more towards "professional" users is indeed true - when compared to the iPhone. Of the two, the HTC is offered through at&t’s business Premier program.
The features offered on the TyTN II are undoubtedly included to address the needs of power users (professionals) more so than the iPhone. Not meant to be read out of context.
Each of the phones offers a unique set of features - neither can be compared directly to one another. Opinions are of course subjective.
Oct 29th, 2007 Quote
Jim
Great article. I have never owned a smartphone until the Tytn II, and actually I wanted a Nokia 6110 Navigator to replace my Motorola V3X. I have a Palm Tungsten TX PDA. I thought that HSDPA with the Palm would have been ideal. The Tytn was the best-featured ‘phone’ I could have with my current network.
So I thought, “What the hell, Palm isn’t going anywhere, let’s see if I can get the benefits of both devices in one”.
My immediate impression was that WM6 is just overly complex. Palm devices just work, and easily. Everything is easy to find and understand, and you don’t need a big fat manual. With WM6 you have an additional layer of unnecessaty complexity. The whole ‘My Documents’ thing on a PDA just doesn’t make sense to me. I agree absolutely that the Tytn II is aimed at professional users. Give this device to a non-technical person and they’ll really struggle.
The Tytn has some seriously cool hardware, but the OS just sucks big time. Compared with Palm, handwriting recognition is simply awful, and overall response is sluggish. The font size is too small, and web browsing is awful. Microsoft Voice Command is excellent though - essential IMO.
I looked at the IPhone, and in the US you can get it for $299 from Electro Cheap, which is reasonable, but its feature list isn’t good enough for the money.
In short, I have mixed feelings about my Tytn. I wish it was simpler, I wish web-browsing was better, but the hardware is just so cool! I think I might just grow to love it the same way I did the TX.
So perhaps the thing I really need to change is my own limitations, and just learn how to get the best out of the hardware. It shouldn’t be this way really…
Oct 30th, 2007 Quote
Matt
None
If you think of the HTC TYTN II as a hand-held computer with a phone stuck in it and the iPhone as an iPod with a phone stuck into it, I think you won’t be far off in terms of both expectations and capabilities.
In terms of what you get for your money, for me it’s a no-brainer:
* HTC: GPS, 3G, rich application support, keyboard, tilted screen (for watching movies)
* Apple: smoother user interface
Oh, and HTC has promised to never brick your phone. For some reason, they think you own it after you buy it…
Oct 31st, 2007 Quote
Colin
Oh, and HTC has promised to never brick your phone. For some reason, they think you own it after you buy it…
Was waiting for someone to mention that. I just bought my Tilt several days ago, and after flasing a new rom without the AT&T bloatware on it, this device is flat out awesome. Yes, I requires a little more work to get into the sweet spot, but depending on who you ask, that’s a good thing.
Iphones to me are kindof boring because of the restrictions placed on it by apple. WM devices are are open to become whatever the user wants them to be. I agree with your point about simplicity, but with that simplicity come with lack of choice. I’d rather take the slight performance hit, knowing i can run a GBA emulator on my phone, then have a cool looking, but mainly simplistic machine with no real options for expansion.
Nov 1st, 2007 Quote
Hans
It took me 5 minutes to set my Kaiser, and 5 previous Win Mobile phones I owned.
All schedules, contacts, task etc. basically everything I need for my everyday life.
No PC involved, I dont even have activesync installed in my vista… you know activesync is a klutz in vista, go figure…
And thats the beauty of exchange. I know not many people has companies with exchange servers… but try hosted exchange next time.
All you need to do is insert your server IP, name and password… and your data carries over with you in any phone you have now, or will buy.
You’ll never go back to Symbian land, or any other OS.
Havent tried iPhone with exchange yet (which they claim they support)
But I dont think ill buy any phone without exchange now.
Love em or hate em, Microsoft is genius.
Nov 2nd, 2007 Quote
tapan
nice article.. I just got the Tilt (unlocked) .. works like a charm on my t-mobile connection, edge et all.
Nov 2nd, 2007 Quote
E.T.Cook
eugenecook.com
The comparison between the iPhone and the Tilt is unfair, because the iPhone is nowhere near as capable as the Tilt. To be honest, as an iPhone owner, I am appalled at what it CAN’T do…thus comparing the usability of the iPhone, to the Tilt is asinine…just as a scientific calculator is far simpler to operate than a graphing calculator, even for basic operations, the comparison is ridiculous and misguided.
Nov 6th, 2007 Quote
Derek
5thirtyone.com
You obviously didn’t read the entire post because towards the middle of the post I admitted that the two phones could not be compared to one another. The rest of the post broke down my observations and experiences of the two.
Nov 6th, 2007 Quote
Kehinde Shote
naijamusing.blogspot.com
Hi Derek,
I recently played with my friend’s iphone (Unlocked and on the MTn network in Nigeria!). The phone entertained me for 30 minutes and then I wished it had more. The big question with the iphone is not whether it can wow you the first time but whether it can provide two years of usage without you wanting a new device. That’s the beauty of Windows Mobile. Yo can add 3rd party applications like SPB Pocket Plus http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/pocketplus/?en will completely transform your device. You can also apply registry tweaks that improve your phone. For power users like me this make a lot of sense. The iphone will wow people sued to more basic phones.
I also played with the HTC Tytn II and I must say it looks good on the surface. It has practically everything you need. It’s also an improvement over the Tytn and the Wizard.
So I agree with you that there is no basis for comparison. The HTC Tytn II rules!
Nov 9th, 2007 Quote
Oskar
permagnus.com
Paul - Symbian UIQ is the most usable if compared to Blackberry, Symbian, and Palm? You sure you’re not smoking pot while typing that? Symbian UIQ is THE WORST user experience I’ve ever had with a smart phone.
I’ve used everything from Palm, Symbian, Symbian UIQ, iPhone, Windows mobile since the first XDA, and I gotta tell you, in term of user experience iPhone comes all the way to the top with Palm trailing second and Symbian close behind. It’s like the developer of UIQ and WM intentionally made their OS as hard to use as possible.
My last HTC that I own is Dopod 818Pro (not sure what’s their HTC codename, flashed it to WM6 as soon as the operating system came out) and I’m glad that’s my last WM device.
And I do experience Derek’s problem on how long it takes for the device to answer a phone call. It’s not just answering, canceling the call, hang up the call, all took at least a second to complete. Never experienced that on any of my previous phone (Symbian, Palm, iPhone or even Blackberry)… oh wait, I DO have that experience with Symbian UIQ…
But nonetheless, above all that crash-prone WM6, I have to agree that Kaiser is more powerful on doing stuffs that’s important for business people, probably like answering their emails while they’re on vacation or something. I prefer watching movies or listening to the movie when I’m not on my work desk…
Nov 14th, 2007 Quote
Derek
5thirtyone.com
@Oskar Thank you! Finally, someone re-confirmed that answering calls often takes at least a second for the device to process.
Nov 14th, 2007 Quote
Gunna
Its simple really.
If you are computer savvy, then the HTC is awesome - if you are not however, then the iPhone is a safer choice.
Nov 14th, 2007 Quote
Derek
5thirtyone.com
@Gunna, do you really think that that assumption is a safe way to decide who will enjoy an HTC over an iPhone? Using a mobile phone has nothing to do with an individuals computer savviness.
Nov 14th, 2007 Quote
Jim
Actually I think Gunna is right. WM6 is very capable, but over-complicated and inintuitive.
I think that the only people that will really appreciate any WM6 device over something like an iphone, are the ones who are prepared to “get their hands dirty” and tweak the interface to make it work nicely. The Palm OS for example is way easier, and the iphone is even easier than this.
WM6 is inescapably an ‘operating system’ that treats the device as a mobile computing platform. It does not have the simple clarity of a good phone UI. Like any WM6 device, it just isn’t a ‘phone’.
In addition, the only reason for anyone to choose a WM6 device over an iphone (assuming they have the choice regarding their network operator) is on the basis of hardware specification, and more flexibility in terms of connectivity. It tends to be the more technologically-aware that care about this stuff!
Nov 15th, 2007 Quote
ORANGE M700
I don’t understand why anyone needs to tweak the OS. I’m using the HTC P3600 running WM5 and its the best phone ever and its completely stable. Its never crashed out on me. I think stuff like confirmation of text messages going out, etc.. is really not a big deal. You must be a control freak to want to change stuff like that. That to me, is on a par with wanting the flasher unit in your car to be silent when it is on.
When I got the unit, I just switched it on with the SIM card in and was up and running in 5 minutes. Haven’t customized anything and don’t need to. I don’t see why spending 5 minutes running through a few wizards is a problem. You must be very impatient if that is a problem for you.
The phone gives me front/rear camera/video, sat nav, push e-mail for work via Exchange, pull e-mail for my personal POP accounts, mobile internet via 3G or WiFi, perfect synching of contacts/calender, bluetooth, etc.
Its just an awesome business tool or for perfect for anyone with a hectic work/social life. I’ll probably upgrade to the TyTN II in the new year. I rule out the symbian phones based on their ugly interfaces and the iPhone is really for social users - it lacks too many features and is really just a Motorola RAZR for 2007/8.
Nov 15th, 2007 Quote
Gunna
Exactly. The Apple interface is in alot of ways smoother. but more can be squeezed from the HTC than the Apple…
Depends what your after.
Nov 15th, 2007 Quote
Jim
I’m used to lots of apps, and don’t mind a bit of complexity. I don’t want it on my phone though, and I want to be able to navigate without using the stylus. Things like contacts are a pain, Pocket IE is awful, the standard phone dialer and calculator just aren’t very good, changing mobile profiles is awkward, even choosing a ring tone is something you need a stylus for on the Tytn at least.
And as you mention an ugly interface, that’s another reason to customise your phone. Also small fonts, buttons and scroll bars. The hardware is great, but usability just isn’t. IMO you really shouldn’t have a PC-like interface on a phone.
The excellent hardware spec shouldn’t hide the fact that the UI isn’t the easiest. I think the most telling thing is, if the iphone had the same features as the Tytn, and the same price with the Apple UI, which would you choose? Then maybe we should ask the same question with Palm and Symbian UIs. I suspect WM6 wouldn’t come near the top of the list…
Nov 15th, 2007 Quote
Ricky
Very Very biased article there!
I’ve used both devices, and while the iPhone OS is smoother and generally lag free, what good is that when it takes so long to download webpages/emails.
And writing documents/messages on an iPhone is hell. just hell.
Nov 16th, 2007 Quote
Gunna
Tytn II is awesome. I have had very few problems at all, and made quite a few mods to the software… A little bit of TLC with these units, and they are sweeet!
Even this so called “lag problem” is a bit of a joke… My old N80 running Symbion had the same amount of lag!
I do stick by my earlier post though, in that the iPhone would still be a better option for those that aren’t as comfortable with PC’s…
Nov 19th, 2007 Quote
Mark
I have never used MAC products..
but whenever I have a chance to use a mac, I wow at them..
so smooth and nice.!!..
However, if i am to choose between a mac product and a windows based product, i’d go for windows..
I tried my friends’ iphones.. and i loved them.. very nice.. nice and easy..
but it’s not for me.. i like complicated windows mobile device..
i previous owned an ipaq , dell axim and eten glofiish x500+…
you know what you can do with Pocket PC/Pda phones ?
you can do almost anything you want.. it can be a remote control, gameboy, or anything you want it to be… you can tweak it so it looks like iphone!?
whenever i use a mac product, i feel like.. so limited!
Nov 27th, 2007 Quote
Derek Watts
Open mind?!Basically symbian is a simple os so naturally idiots prefer it and think it’s the best thing since sliced bread!same applies with I-phone.Show me a symbian or ridiculous I-phone osx user who has cooked their own ROM-see this is where WM kills the likes of those kiddy operating systems.WM is basically opensource.Look at xda-developers/modaco.com etc where apps are requested by users and programmed by fellow users.Symbian apps are numerous but the quality of program is woeful..osx well their is no software so LOL btw kaiser is an excellent ppc PHONE!
Dec 4th, 2007 Quote
Jason
I don’t know how anybody can think Windows Mobile 5/6 is a good OS.
Everything takes a perceivable amount of time to happen, even on devices with fast CPUs and lots of RAM. Frankly, I want the device to wait for me, not the opposite.
It’s OK, looks wise, but to me, looks aren’t what devices like this are about. I’ve had very positive experiences with both PalmOS and Symbian/UIQ. My old Motorola A1000 was just about the best PAD I’ve ever had, and it was a phone to boot. I only got rid of mine because TomTom dropped support for UIQ in V6.
I went through a couple of PDAs, the first running WM2003SE, the second WM5, and then I got so fed up with all the crashes, all the lag (my iPaq 3870 used to crash whenever it got hot. Not a great idea for a devices used as a GPS)… So I got a Palm T|X. I think I can honestly say, it almost rivals the A1000 in terms of reliability and usability. PalmOS might not be the prettiest thing out there, but it’s fast.
Sadly, I’m again stuck in the dropping support bandwagon, and Palm really seem to run out of steam with their hardware and developers are giving up on the platform left right and centre. Since my phone just died, I don’t want to go back to an S60 phone and an N80 is the only other phone I’ve got (nice screen and features. Shame about the OS, which is runs about as fast as molasses - same with ever S60 device I’ve used. Anyway, I don’t think a device without a touchscreen could ever replace a PDA for me.)
So now I’ve got a TyTN running WM6 (I went for the TyTN because I have a bluetooth GPS so I figured I may as well save the money on the II.) I don’t hate it yet, but the minor irritations are already creeping in.
Maybe I do just have a vendetta against Windows mobile, but it would be nice if I have a choice. Show me a decent, pocketable touchscreen HSDPA smartphone with WiFi which doesn’t run WM. I don’t think there is one
I’ve played with an iPhone, and the OS is every bit as slick and user-friendly as it’s desktop counterpart. Mobile Safari is without a doubt the most usable web-browser on a pocketable device. If Apple released a 3G iPhone tomorrow, I would buy it without consideration! I suspect the 3rd party apps will really start to kick off once jailbreaking isn’t necessary. If TomTom released a version of Navigator for the iPhone/iPod Touch platform, then even better!
Dec 31st, 2007 Quote
patrick
thanks, very useful review and comments.
How often I get seduced by features and forget how important usability and simplicity are, I wont be buying a tytn II now, my days of suffering windows are over, (sold my PC for £80) why get it on my mobile?!?
I’ve had an LG Viewty for a few months and I’m considering hanging on to it a bit longer. Can download freebuddhistaudio with it!
Don’t worry it’s getting there.
Jan 8th, 2008 Quote
Rudy
cybertronics-id.com
I own numerous Windows devices, some Nokia, some SE, and recently iPhone. I like iPhone mainly because I can SSH into it from my desktop, and then install a samba then activate the samba file sharing. Then mount my computer’s folder into the iPhone, then access my computer’s folder.. Oh well, I can do it by typing \\computer\folder on my Windows device then..
I love the fact that SMS is a bubbled text, looks funny and stylish that way, but how to answer them? Reach for your iphone and click on reply then type it by using that super small keyboard? Well, I offer a better way.. How about stuck your cell phone inside your drawer, then answer your sms from your desktop? All arrived SMS is just a glance away from your Windows, and just a click away to answer it without EVER touching your phone.
Next comment, I have not experienced BSOD since 7 years ago.. It’s strange saying that you experience BSOD nowadays.. If you indeed experienced BSOD, then scrap your computer, and throw them at your store’s garbage can. You have bought a trash. BSOD nowadays can only happen if you have faulty hardware. And if you expect to run a complete USB sync device recognition with virtualization, I could say the same.. I use MacOSX on my virtualization machine, and it has crashed 4 times a day inside my VMWare, without even having it to recognize my iPhone. After I plugged my iPhone, my mouse and keyboard stopped working completely. I have to press reset. Then I tried to empty some hard drive, and install my MacOS, then …. suddenly MacOS didn’t recognize my data hard disk… DANG!!! I’ve downloaded my firmware there. It was a basic SIIMAGE chipset that supported in every single linux distribution, how come? After some struggle, it seems that MacOS has some problem with my SATA based DVDWriter and locked up when copying files. Oh well, time to buy a new DVD Writer… wait, should I buy anew Writer for an OS? NOPE, I won’t… I’ll use another trick to install MacOS inside my VMWare to a physical partition. Then after it rebooted (well, it’s Mac anyway), I have to restart Windows and boot into “physical MacOS”, only to find that my graphic card is not recognized. DAMN!!! I can’t find any driver regarding my 8800GTS 640MB VGA. Should I downgrade and throw my state of art fastest GPU available on market to trash can only because some shitty OS? Nope… But that doesn’t hinder me to wander around MacOS. First up, get into terminal.. WOW… what did I found? it’s Linux… I think it is a BSD port or Slackware port. I familiar with most of it’s internal command. So I removed MacOS completely, only to see some damaged Mac Boot loader locked up when I tried to boot into my Windows, and I have to reinstall my Windows. My first and last MacOS trial. Then I put my Ubuntu back into MacOS partition, and for enjoyment sake, I customize my compiz-fusion for MacOS look and feel, including that application menu on top
with a much better OpenGL based effects.
You know what is MacOS? It is a linux you idiot… Grab that free Ubuntu, and you’ll get Mac OS, plus much more.. New KDE instead of that stupid finder. Oh, I forgot, Mac’s finder is actually a modified KDE’s dolphin anyway. Even Mac’s control panel is KDE’s control panel plain and clear. iTunes? Well, nothing more than Amarok
So, what is MacOS? It’s Linux for idiot who wants to be jailed by Apple on their own free will. Grab that Linux, and you can have MacOS without tying yourself up, and it’s free.
Sorry, I hate the way you review.. Too much bias, too much hate, that you can’t see things clear. A Linux with pretty interface, change their background, modify their finder, take out amarok name and put iTunes, then put Apple logo, then put up a HELL LOT of walls and bricks, and you got MacOS, and you pay for Apple to tie your arm and leg with chains.
It is even absurd if you said that Nokia is better, as Nokia is another company that loves to charge you a lot for any super limited feature they give. I hate their advertising that said, grab video and share… I said, OH MY GODD!!!! This is 2007, and they just able to make a video and share it? Where did they went all this years? I have done that since 2002 with my Windows mobile. They are late for 5 years. When they say that they can browse with wifi, I kind like… what??? Isn’t that available since a few years ago? All of N95 features are available to me since XDAIIs, and then some. All of them, plus extra some more. Can N95 open a shared folder on my computer? can N95 run DOS program like clipper or old dos games like Ultima7? My 4 generations old Windows mobile can.
Strange to mention recycle bin on WM as weakness, while you can’t even copy-paste text to any application you want. Hell, you even can’t forward SMS, nor copy some text of SMS you want to send, or even type while being able to read all the text you have to forward. How am I supposed to forward proof of my mobile banking transfer to a client, for example?
And gunna was right.. you know nothing about computer, so don’t need to boast here that you are computer savvy. A Computer savvy guy will hate mac at its cores, much like all open source people hate mac.. They cannibalize their “free” software, locked it (well, they can lock them easily because its source are free to download, and they won’t be sued anyway since it’s free), make them only work so that you can only pay to apple, and sell them to you at high price. The free copy of mac software are out there, and upgraded every day.. Now, which one you choose?
Well, you can just continue living under the rock, and eat from your expensive but rotten fruits, or you throw away your hate, try to live under free world and eat steaks or chinese food for free. My 2 cents for you, if you say iPhone is good, I can make an iPhone with my TyTn.
If you say N95 is good, I can make N95 out of my TyTn. I’ve made myself a multi-tap input for Stealth so that it can perform like normal multi-tap phone. I can even make iPhone’s keyboard into my TyTn.
Now, I challenge you to do the opposite.. Can you make TyTn out of your iPhone? I am not asking much.. I want iPhone to be able to use tap-hold interface, provide me with context sensitive menu, then I can cut-copy-paste anything I want, from anywhere to anywhere. You make that, and I’ll consider to buy one for me.
Don’t take me wrong, I like iPhone, otherwise I won’t play with my friend’s iPhone too much, but I don’t like your hate and false claims about other OSes. You made them up, just because you hate them. To another reader, I can guarantee that they are just false accusation, much like every other reader here, including me, comments that they has never experienced those kind of problem before. The only reason, is that those problem are made up, engineered.
Jan 11th, 2008 Quote
Derek
5thirtyone.com
Rudy, I hope you’re not forgetting that at 7+ years old, I would hope that Windows Mobile has some advantages over the iPhone (currently at version 1.1.2 < 1 year old). Maybe the "review" was not transparent enough? There was no definitive winner and the two can not be fairly compared to one another. Yes, all of that was stated in the review. I am not going to address every detail that you've brought up in hopes of avoiding a flame war between OS's.
You’re excited and touting Bluetooth as a major feature of Windows Mobile. It’s very much true that in its current 1.1.2 version, the iPhone is completely crippled without the most current Bluetooth profile support. But come the release of Apple’s SDK, things will change.
Your BSOD explanation is a cop out. I’m sorry, it is. If I were to issue a public request for computer users to document when they experienced a Windows BSOD - including what they were doing - I’m confident that your solution of tossing a computer would be completely wasteful.
Yes, the core of Mac OS is UNIX. Apple even advertises the fact that OS X is built atop UNIX. You really are passionate about your stance concerning Apple software aren’t you? And correction, I don’t open Terminal and say wow this is Linux. I open the Terminal in OS X and Linux and say wow it’s UNIX or "UNIX-like".
I have no hate and I see quite clearly. Every once in awhile a Rudy comes along and completely bashes an operating system based on - ironically - personal preference. So what side of the fence are you on? Windows or Linux, I couldn’t tell. I know for sure you’re not a fan of Mac OS.
I respected gunna’s comment but yours is on a completely different level. So what are your thoughts on the different flavors of Windows Vista priced at $299, $399, and $499. Remind me who is charging high prices?
Yes, you are so right! Lies lies lies I spout from my mouth and publish on the net. Technically, I didn’t really have either of the phones in my possession. Furthermore, I used my hatred to motivate me to type out this review pulling thoughts out of my magic hat! Yes, the entire review was biased despite the fact that I highlighted my favorites / recommended software for Windows Mobile. The line where I mentioned that the two devices could not even be compared fairly - complete lie! I’m sorry to say but what you have left on this page is far more biased than what was originally published.
Jan 11th, 2008 Quote
Ashu